BAD MSG: justified as a stop-gap. They were primarily put in place before MIME nd 8BitMime came into existance. However, this does not change the fact that 8BitMime is currently illegal. If we can agree on something that would allow a server to designate if it will receive 8 Bit SMTP data (as I mentioned, the hello greeting would be a good place) as well as a time when we can get all mail servers to 8BitMime, then we can drop this argument once and for all. Otherwise, this is never going to end. Saying something that goes against the spec is not a good idea. Interoperable means we all follow the same set of rules. If that breaks down, we might as well all call of IETF San Jose and disband the internet groups. Working together to come to something we can all live with, even if it means concessions from all parties and extra work for all, is what we are trying to achieve. Saying something is already in existance and will not change won't fix anything. After all, isn't that why we have this DRUMS group? To try and figure out what problems exist and come to a solution that everyone, not just one small group, can work with? regards, Jack