Received: from localhost by CS.UTK.EDU with SMTP (cf v2.9s-UTK) id NAA04090; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:51:57 -0400 X-Resent-To: drums@CS.UTK.EDU ; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:51:54 EDT Errors-to: owner-drums@CS.UTK.EDU Received: from othello.admin.kth.se by CS.UTK.EDU with SMTP (cf v2.9s-UTK) id NAA04071; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:51:47 -0400 Received: from mercutio.admin.kth.se by othello.admin.kth.se (5.65+bind 1.8+ida 1.4.2/4.0b) id AA09485; Mon, 11 Sep 95 19:51:43 +0200 Received: by mercutio.admin.kth.se (5.65+bind 1.8+ida 1.4.2/4.0) id AA26353; Mon, 11 Sep 95 19:51:41 +0200 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 95 19:51:41 +0200 Message-Id: <9509111751.AA26353@mercutio.admin.kth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Olle Jarnefors To: drums@CS.UTK.EDU Cc: Olle Jarnefors In-Reply-To: <199509050640.IAA08842@dale.uninett.no> Subject: Re: Another header-munging example..... Harald wrote: > Now, here's a new one: > A list munger that uses From: and To: as the intended destination for > wide-reply-to, and Reply-To: as the intended destination for > narrow-reply-to... The lack of a minimal standard for the format of messages distributed from mailing lists, and for the format of subscription and unsubscription requests, makes it more or less impossible to implement good support functions in UAs for using mailing lists. A basic set of such functions is a) automatic sorting of incoming messages based on which mailing-list they come from b) the command "read new _personal_ mail" c) a command for subscribing to a list d) a command for unsubscribing from a list e) commands for showing all subscribed lists, going to the messages from a particular list, reading the new messages from that list. The utility of such mailing list functionality in UA programs increases with the number of new and naive Internet users. They will not have to learn the distinction between the list address itself and the -request address. The UA will take care of such details. > I think the Area Directors are likely to heartily applaud (and rent out > asbestos suits to) someone offering a draft of an "advice to header mungers" > document - OUTSIDE DRUMS. I don't have a draft but at least some ideas for how _mailing list exploders_ should modify message headers: A simple case ------------- If distributes the incoming message From: To: , Cc: Newsgroups: it should change the headers to From: To: Also-To: Also-Cc: Also-To-Newsgroups: Mailing-List: A _modern_ UA would use the From address for its "personal reply" command, the Mailing-List address for its "group reply" command, and all the addresses from the From, To, Also-To, Also-Cc, and Mailing-List headers for its "reply to everyone" command. An _old-fashioned_ UA would use the To and From addresses for its "reply to all" command and the Reply-To address for its "personal reply" command. A _stupid_ UA would use the From address in its single "reply" command, forcing all replies to be personal replies to the author. (This is, however, better than the opposite alternative, that all replies are sent to the list. In that case replies only meant for the original author, perhaps including statements never intended to be seen by others, will leak out to the whole list.) The meaning of the modified Newsgroups header Also-To-Newsgroups can't be misunderstood by man or software, unlike the much disputed use of the Newsgroups header in mail. The main purpose of the Mailing-List header is to show unambigously from which mailing list the message originated and thereby making automatic sorting of the incoming messages to a user possible. If the author has redirected personal replies --------------------------------------------- If the original message distributed by also has a Reply-To: header, it should be retained in the redistributed message for the benefit of old-fashioned UAs and also be supplemented by Personal-Reply-To: as a more precise tip to modern UAs. Sending to several lists, with responses to one of them ------------------------------------------------------- If the original message is sent to several mailing lists, but responses should go to only one of them, yet another new header is needed, Group-Reply-To. When distributes the incoming message From: To: , , Cc: Newsgroups: Group-Reply-To: it should change the headers to From: To: Also-To: , Also-Cc: Also-To-Newsgroups: Mailing-List: Group-Reply-To: When distributes it, the headers will become From: To: Also-To: , Also-Cc: Also-To-Newsgroups: Mailing-List: Group-Reply-To: In both cases an old-fashioned UA should be able to send a reply to the correct only. This would emulate the Followups-To header in Usenet. Announcement-type lists ----------------------- In the special case of an announcement-type mailing list, the distributed messages should always contain a Reply-To header (with the From address, if the original message didn't include a Reply-To) and a Personal-Reply-To header with the same content. To indicate that no group replies are possible, also the header Group-Reply-To: <> should be included. Conclusion ---------- New headers needed: Mailing-List: list from which this message emanates Personal-Reply-To: where personal replies should go Group-Reply-To: where group replies should go Also-To: primary recipients of an equivalent message Also-Cc: secondary recipients of an equivalent message Also-To-Newsgroups: newsgroups who have received an equivalent message Also needed: An Internet standard specifying - that the local-part of a mailing list's address shall never end with "-request" - that the local-part of a mailing list's administrative address shall be the local-part of the list's own address with "-request" appended - the format of a subscription request - the format of an unsubscription request. -- Olle Jarnefors, Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm