Errors-to: owner-drums@CS.UTK.EDU
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 17:11:56 +0200
Message-Id: <9509131511.AA04174@mercutio.admin.kth.se>
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From: Olle Jarnefors <ojarnef@admin.kth.se>
To: drums@CS.UTK.EDU
Cc: Keith Moore <moore@CS.UTK.EDU>, Olle Jarnefors <ojarnef@admin.kth.se>
In-Reply-To: <199509111827.OAA13208@wilma.cs.utk.edu>
 (Mon, 11 Sep 1995 14:27:03 -0400; From: Keith Moore <moore@CS.UTK.EDU>)
Subject: Re: Another header-munging example..... 

Keith,

You wrote:

> (from the chair)
> 
> Briefly: extensions to 822 to better support mailing lists are not 
> in our charter.

OK, drums@CS.UTK.EDU was the wrong list for a constructive 
contribution to solving the mailing list problems. Which 
other IETF-related list would you recommend for that 
discussion? mailext? ietf-822?

> Discussion of how to add headers to 822 to fix mailing lists 
> is unlikely to be productive.

Since you seem quite sure about this, I must ask you about your
reasons: Is it because defining new headers can't solve the
problems technically, not even after a transition period, or
because the interested people will never be able to reach rough
consensus on a solution?

> We should confine our discussion to:
> 
> + clarifying what the existing 822 headers mean
> + clarifying the existing 822 language about how "text message
>   teleconferencing" (see section 4.4.3) servers can use existing 822 
>   fields like Resent-* and Reply-to
> + clarifying how user agents should interpret 822 fields
>   (to the extent that we define user agent behavior at all)

I don't believe that such fine-tuning can solve any of the
important mailing list problems. The reason is simple:

The headers defined in RFC 822 were designed primarily to cater
for personal e-mail. The use of mailing lists on a large scale
was at its infancy in 1982. When a message is distributed by
a mailing list exploder the recipient's UA needs more
information about the message _in addition to_ all information
that can be included in a person-to-person message. Especially
the UA needs to know that the message came from a mailing list
and the identity of that list. (Both needs can be satisfied
by a single new header, Mailing-List.)

/Olle