Andrew: I'm interested in pie-in-the-sky rambling (as well as working projects). Is there another list for ramblings?| Andrew: I'm interested in pie-in-the-sky rambling (as well as working projects). Is there another list for ramblings? |
| Bram: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/decentralization/ |
| Lucas: ...fun stuff... |
| Lucas: When a node signs data for some other node, it certifies that the signed data was present by that time. But what about the key being signed with? |
| Brad: Interesting idea. I'm still trying to "grok" it. |
| Lucas: I think that we can establish alternate routes along the directed graph, given luck. |
| Lucas: Constantly establishing keys doesn't make sense. The algorithm works just as well if there is a third bit of data, a use-once token. |
| Brad: What do you mean? |
| Lucas: Like anything else this half assed, somebody must have already written this idea up better with actual discipline! |
| Brad: You'd be surprised; this looks like virgin territory. |
| Lucas: I wonder how much of this niche SPKI already fills? Maybe that is a good place to start cannibalizing. |
| Bram: A groundhog showed its face in golden gate park and we now know when the next p2p-hackers meeting will be |
| p2p-hackers@zgp.org: Hal, |
| Brad: In a sense it sounds like your idea is to create very long certificate chains. |
| Lucas: A signs B's key, B signs C's key. |
| Bram: A new release of BitTorrent is out - |
| Lucas: You're right, given that the maximum length of the chain depends on the amount of time between two events. |
| ricardo: Thank you so much for the latest report, |
| Kevin: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 |
| Artimage: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 |
| Aaron: Hi there, |
| Aaron: We met at Emerging Technologies several months ago. Where is your key available? It doesn't seem to be on the public keyservers. |
| Aaron: Argh, stupid reply-to headers! That email wasn't meant to be public. |
| Aaron: Can we please fix this for the reasons listed in http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html |
| Jeff: I second the motion. |
| Lucas: I oppose the motion. |
| Steven: I'm also opposed. |
| Peter: --a8Wt8u1KmwUX3Y2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii |
| Hal: A rebuttal to this essay, which argues that reply-to munging is beneficial and should be the default, |
| Oskar: Can't this be set per user in mailman? |
| Marco: He was dead... He left his genius and software to us...hi Gene see you. |
| Bram: Remember everyone, we're having a meeting this sunday, the 12th, starting around 3pm at the metreon in san francisco, in the food court area. |
| Bram: I meant, of course, the 14th. |
| Bram: welp, meeting today, 3pm, metreon, I'll be there... |
| Zooko: It seems preferable to me that when you reply to a mailing list message, your reply goes back to the mailing list by default, |
| Sean: to do |
| Sean: erse. |
| Zooko: Hm.. Haven't we had this dicussion before? |
| Sean: ple |
| Zooko: Zooko |
| Blair: I vote to keep the current reply-to the mailing list setting. |
| Ry4an: Maybe this: |
| Sean: --=-SV5CZeQIpuqlZPJ5c7fA Content-Type: text/plain |
| Sean: Besides, any decent MUA software has a "group reply" or "list reply" function. |
| Adam: Well, I support setting the Reply-To. Despite reading many posts on the evils of Reply-To I've still yet to see any good argument against. |
| Ry4an: can help short-cut this discussion. |
| Hal: I doubt it, since both of those links were posted to this list on Monday, July 8. |
| Stephen: Hitler. |
| Zooko: This isn't a democracy, but I did say that I would change my mind if faced with a consensus. |
| Buffer.OverRun: with |
| Buffer.OverRun: munging, |
| Zooko: Please be extra careful when replying -- your replies go to the public list by default. |
| Buffer.OverRun: list by |
| Glenn: --=.v0IL.PeMDODXWu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII |
| Glenn: Everything as a file is a mantra of the unix world. |
| Bram: This is a bit of a subtle objection, but BitTorrent doesn't handle files as streams, it kinda downloads pieces in random order. |
| Glenn: I think the Content Addressable Web |
| Justin: The "Content Addressable Web" is a subset, or optimization of generic web architecture. |
| Glenn: CAW is a subset on the internet that is restricted to static content, i do very much like the idea of CAW in that subset, but it is a subset. |
| Glenn: The trasport layer would need properties such as content independence, security, (limited?) anonymity, accountability, intelligent routing... |
| Sam: I think the NeuroGrid project is trying to do this: |
| Justin: That generic transport layer already exists, its called HTTP. |
| Glenn: Yea, the pieces are there, they just have to be put together in the right way. |
| Glenn: Does anyone know of any projects attempting to create such a network layer, |
| Sam: I'm sure any of the above projects would be very interested to have you on board, and new projects are always welcome, |
| Glenn: I would rather work with an existing project, but i expect the network layer to be a hard thing to change if its part of a bigger system... |
| Sam: http://cubicmetercrystal.com/alpine/overview.html http://semplesh.com/ |
| Glenn: I had looked at alpine, searching is part of their network protocol, i think there should be a clean seperation between |
| Sam: http://www.neurogrid.net/Decentralized_Meta-Data_Strategies-neat.html |
| Glenn: Interesting... |
| Justin: Personally, I think the concept of a P2P transport layer is as vacuous as talking about a "P2P operating system". |
| Glenn: IMHO p2p is only about the transport layer. |
| Brad: Justin, how would you layer a peer to peer network over HTTP? |
| Glenn: Im not sure about Semplesh. |
| Sam: Well semplesh runs on top of Chord, but NeuroGrid has a clean break between searching and retrieving. |
| Glenn: Glenn |
| Brad: The alternative to the Unix file philosophy is the web philosophy: everything as a URI. You could call this the REST philosophy. |
| Jeff: Important to note: these are not exclusive. |
| Glenn: Yes, URI fits better, it ties a file handle to specific machine(s). |
| Justin: What do you want the P2P network to do? |
| Zooko: Folks: |
| Buffer.OverRun: i haven't RTFM'd on CAW or OCN yet, |
| Buffer.OverRun: i prefer the reply-to sent to the entire group. |
| Jeff: Ditto for people in the opposite scenario who can't figure out how to send to all. |
| Gordon: I love content-hashes as URI identifiers, but you're right, they don't cover everything, like streams, series/events, |
| Gordon: Or is there already such an URN type? I haven't run across one yet. |
| Aaron: This sounds something like the ESL proposal. |
| Aaron: There are some obvious mistakes in this draft |
| Gordon: Yes, that's similar... |
| Roger: Please re-distribute as appropriate... |
| Gordon: Also, there's no need to include the actual signature of the name inside the URI. |
| Aaron: Oh, |
| Gordon: Are you suggesting that instead of a parameterized "kau" type, there be different URI types for each signing algorithm? |
| Aaron: How is it pollution? |
| Gordon: There are already a dozen or more public-key signing approaches. |
| Gordon: That just pops the registration issue up a level, pollutes the URI-scheme namespace, |
| Aaron: I would hope such a library would be able to handle any URI, not just kau ones. |
| Gordon: In some cases, it might be nice for such a library to treat all URIs as opaque identifiers. |
| Gordon: You don't even really need a formal IANA-type registration procedure when your universe of possibilities is small, |
| Aaron: This may be true, but sort of defeats the purpose of the URN standardization process. |
| Gordon: I'd agree that's the ideal of a centralized registry. |
| Gordon: [Tangent: Just like search engines such as Google have made the DNS registration system less important, |
| Aaron: Google is simply another form of centralized storage and query, although the input method is different and less structured. |
| Gordon: Being a devil's advocate: then don't use "the", even if the registry says it's OK. Someone might be using it unregistered. |
| Aaron: http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/draft-swartz-pgp-urn-00.html |
| Gordon: Yep, very similar. |
| Aaron: What's the hierarchical namespace? I'm wary of using // without a DNS name or IP following. |
| Gordon: Per RFC 2396: |
| Aaron: BTW, was urn:sha1 ever registered? |
| Gordon: Not yet registered. Needs to be, but I don't know when I or someone else will get around to it. |
| Buffer.OverRun: "to sound condescending" was not my intent. |
| Clint: Hi All, A while back I posted a request for people to fill out a |
| Louis-Eric: Hello everyone, |
| Bicarregui,: Please see: = http://www.cclrc.ac.uk/Activity/ACTIVITY=3DVNs;SECTION=3D2312 for |
 Aaron: I just set up an archive of the p2p-hackers using Ka-Ping Yee's zest prototype. |
| Aaron: http://notabug.com/zest/p2p-hackers/ |
| Gordon: Interesting. |
| Blair: Looks great when I load it in IE. |
| Zooko: AaronSw: |
| Zooko: Cool mailing list software! I see that all the messages were from "p2p-hackers". |
 Aaron: No, the mail headers I receive on my machine are fine but those stored on the website are not (presumably to foil spammers). |
| Blair: The requested URL /zest/p2p-hackers/style.css was not found on this server. |
| Aaron: Oops, I accidentally deleted this file. Fixed. |